Great Debates in Dietetics

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Any views and opinions expressed are those of the author(s) and/or participants and do not necessarily reflect the views, policy, or position of Consultant360 or HMP Global, their employees, and affiliates. 

This podcast series aims to highlight the science, psychology, and strategies behind the practice of dietetics. Moderator, Lisa Jones, MA, RDN, LDN, FAND, interviews prominent dietitians and health professionals to help our community think differently about food and nutrition.

Additional Resources:

• Enjoy Food. Enjoy Life. Accessed July 13, 2023. https://enjoyfoodenjoylife.com/

Listen to episode 2 in this 4-part series. 

Listen to episode 4 in this 4-part series.

Lisa Jones, MA, RDN, LDN, FAND, is a registered dietitian nutritionist, speaker, and author (Philadelphia, PA).

Nicole Rodriguez, RDN, NASM-CPT, is an award-winning registered dietitian nutritionist, co-founder of Step Bite Step, co-host of the Food Bullying podcast, and brand partner with  American Dairy Northeast, the New York Beef Council, Bush Brothers and Company, General Mills, Wish Farms, California Leafy Greens and Bayer Crop Science (New York Metro area). 

TRANSCRIPTION:

Speaker 1:

Hello, and welcome to Nutrition 411 The Podcast, a special podcast series led by registered dietician and nutritionist, Lisa Jones. The views of the speakers are their own and do not reflect the views of their respective institutions or Consultant360.

Lisa Jones:

Hello and welcome to Nutrition 411, the podcast where we communicate, the information that you need to know now about the science, psychology, and strategies behind the practice of dietetics. Today's podcast is part of a series of short episodes on food access, featuring a Q and A with Nicole Rodriguez. It is my honor today to have Nicole here. Nicole is an award-winning dietician nutritionist based in the New York metro area. In addition to serving a diverse clientele via her telehealth-based practice, she is also the co-founder of Step Bite Step, a weight loss and physical activity program. Nicole is passionate about empowering individuals to feel good about the abundance of food choices at their fingertips, and utilizes her co-hosting duties on the Food Bullying Podcast that do just that.

While Nicole loves working one-on-one with clients towards their health goals, she also helps spread the word about food via her brand partnership, which have included American Dairy Northeast, the New York Beef Council, Bush Brothers and Company, General Mills, Wish Farms, California Leaf Greens, and Bayer CropScience. Last episode, we took a deep dive into evidence-based practice and we talked about how food access solutions can then address food insecurity and improve nutrition in these vulnerable populations. Nicole, if you had to sum up our last conversation in one or two sentences, what do you think would be the key takeaways from the last episode?

Nicole Rodriguez:

We're talking about how we can leverage the term plant-based, and hopefully increase produce consumption. And not just in certain populations, but hopefully in populations that need that increase most. And part of that conversation, Lisa, is really meeting people where they're at and trying to be pencils instead of erasers. Trying to come from a place of yes, and, instead of a place of no, you can't.

Lisa Jones:

Yes, I love the pencils instead of erasers and yes, and. So yes, and to talking about debates in dietetics today, Nicole.

Nicole Rodriguez:

Oh, good times. Let's get into it.

Lisa Jones:

Yes. My first topic or question I should say is, again, we're talking about food access in this episode, but we want to unravel the complexities and debate surrounding equitable nutrition opportunities. So Nicole, what would you say would be the key factors and controversies in addressing food insecurity? And I'm sure there are so many, but what is on the top of Nicole's list?

Nicole Rodriguez:

Oh, gosh. I would have to say in this year where we are at, very top of my list is separating food and morality. I think that's a really, really great place to start if we're going to erase stigma around food, if we're going to make people feel better about the choices that they actually have instead of idealizing ideas of access, right? Because we have to meet people where they are in this current time as opposed to where things could potentially be for everyone in the future.

Lisa Jones:

Yes. And I want to bring your attention to, you recently did, I guess it was a challenge that you gave yourself on social media with McDonald's. And there's kind of a stigma, and you can talk about this more than I can, but there's a stigma around, okay, somebody shouldn't eat fast food at all. And you did this challenge. So I think this would be appropriate to talk about, since we're talking about key topics and debates in dietetics, this is one. What are your thoughts on that?

Nicole Rodriguez:

Yes, that's exactly where my mind was headed, Lisa. So a few months ago, I had the opportunity to hear JC Lippold speak. And he's a fantastic fitness instructor. He gives free classes in the, I believe it's the Minneapolis area. But he is really all about this concept of derailing shame. And he's really passionate about it because, again, we have this data that shows when people feel badly about themselves, they don't feel like they're enough, it can really have an even worse impact on their overall health and nutrition being part of that. So just kind of setting the stage there. I've always wanted to do a challenge of just eating McDonald's. And there was another gentleman who did I believe a hundred days of only McDonald's this year, lost a significant amount of weight. And I said, "You know what? I think this is my time."

And I set some parameters around it because, also, when we're talking about access, Lisa, economics are a part of that conversation, obviously. So what I did is I challenged myself to go to McDonald's every day and be able to spend $5. I basically ate all my other meals as normal, but I did take a lipid panel before the challenge and after the challenge. So I would be able to measure something. I would be able to measure if there was any impact on my health. As you could imagine, Lisa, I did get a lot of pushback because is it really common for a dietician to be out there eating McDonald's, eating it proudly, showcasing it every day, day in, day out for 30 days? I suppose not very common. And Lisa, actually, you had an opportunity to join me for a day, and that was super fun.

We had some apple pies together. It was absolutely glorious. So I did it for a couple of reasons. And one, fast food is the reality for a lot of people. And I think this goes across the economic strata. You might be in one of the situations we discussed in our first episode where you live in a single room occupancy home of sorts where you don't have access to cook for yourself. You might be someone who is constantly running between different jobs that don't allow you to cook for oneself. You might be middle to upper-level income and simply be carting your children around to various activities in the evening, and fast food is just the reality.

So I think if we view it more as one of the blessings of society as opposed to it's this horrible thing, I think we can all have a different attitude about it. And when we're talking about the reality of weight control and weight loss, I would even argue further, Lisa, that fast food is a lot of times a better bet than fast casual or fine dining or a lot of other different kinds of restaurants and other takeout foods. Because what fast food does also offer is portion control. And that's another reason I set the $5 budget, because I knew that if I set that budget, there was literally only so much I would be able to have.

Lisa Jones:

Yes. That is so true because if you go... I think I was at the McDonald's for the Grimace meal and I think that was $10.

Nicole Rodriguez:

Yeah.

Lisa Jones:

Yeah, so it's not-

Nicole Rodriguez:

It's a little pricey.

Lisa Jones:

It is pricey. So it's not like you can... And obviously, that has a Big Mac in it. I think the choice is Big Mac and chicken nuggets or something.

Nicole Rodriguez:

And the shake and the fry, yeah.

Lisa Jones:

And the shake, yeah.

Nicole Rodriguez:

Okay.

Lisa Jones:

So it's kind of a lot of food.

Nicole Rodriguez:

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Lisa Jones:

But I'm glad that you brought in somebody that has a food access issue because a lot of times what'll happen is people will say, "Oh, well, they're eating fast food. And instead of spending money on fast food, they should spend money on something else." But, I mean, I don't think they're throwing down $15 a day on feeding their family with fast food because they can't afford it. It would be smaller things, kind of like what you did in your challenge. So I think that that makes sense.

Nicole Rodriguez:

Yeah, I definitely took advantage of the, you remember we used to have the dollar menu? Wow.

Lisa Jones:

Yes.

Nicole Rodriguez:

I'm definitely aging us, Lisa. But we used to have the dollar menu, and now they have the value menu. And you can order this little bundle with either chicken nuggets or a double cheeseburger, it comes with fries, and then you order a drink for another $1.29. All said and done, you can be out of there for less than $5. In some cases, you can have a Happy Meal for less than $5. And what was great was, throughout the challenge, even though I got pushback, I got so many more messages from dieticians and other people alike saying, "Wow, I had been feeling bad about this. Thank you for putting it out there. I had been wanting a cheeseburger and just hadn't had one for some reason. I enjoyed one today for the first time in so long." And other longer, more thoughtful messages of people who had been in an airport and went and ordered something else. And by time it was all said and done, it was so expensive and too much food. And I should've just had the Happy Meal. And really, the list goes on there.

Lisa Jones:

Yes. And I think that really speaks to what we're talking about here, and that is the equitable nutrition opportunities, because that's food access-

Nicole Rodriguez:

Yes.

Lisa Jones:

... to all.

Nicole Rodriguez:

Yes.

Lisa Jones:

Everybody. And then you have the convenience, you have the portion control. It's just a matter of... And then that goes back to the first episode that we talked about, meet people where they are. So if somebody's coming in and there's somebody that's, yes, they have a food access problem, but they are somebody that currently uses fast food places as some places that they eat, meet them where they're at. Okay, how can we then work with you to continue to do what you like to do and add additional things to make your lifestyle healthier?

Nicole Rodriguez:

It's really a great equalizer in a lot of ways. And I will say from personal recent experience with patients, I do have patients that are in some of these situations. And I had a patient in a very aggressive weight loss goal situation, and she had shared with me that she really likes, in particular, she really likes Popeyes. So we took time, we looked at the menu together online, and we made some really nice compromises as to how she could still fit that because this is, again, this is someone between two jobs doing an internship, her own mental health patient load as part of her internship. Girl is busy. So we went and we looked. And she's in the Bronx, so I know roughly what she has access to in her exact neighborhood.

And we looked at that Popeyes menu and made the compromise of, hey, maybe you're not getting an extra side and a lemonade. And speaking of where you start with someone, it's not always, well, now you just get the kids' meal. Work incrementally with people. Maybe it's a switch from a sugar-sweetened beverage to water. Or maybe it's, hey, I'm giving you the choice between the sugar-sweetened beverage and the biscuit, but we're not doing biscuit, fries, chicken, and the beverage. So recognizing where people have access, what they have access to, but also recognizing that, for a lot of people, maybe this eating pattern is the norm and you need to be really sensitive about changing it.

Lisa Jones:

Yes. I love that advice. And thank you so much for sharing your example and your challenge with us today. I think it's helpful for people to hear and then they can all check out your social media and revisit that. I think you have a roundup on there or something, right? The 30 days?

Nicole Rodriguez:

I do, yes. Thank you, Lisa.

Lisa Jones:

All right, great. Yeah. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

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